One more Latinism

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December 14, 2011 at 5:09 am #800
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Altosackbuteer
Participant

Without at all knowing what Tony’s plot will be in his forthcoming and proposed story about the 1st Crusade, I can predict with great confidence that The Holy Spear of the Brotherhood of the Lamb is itself going to play some kind of starring role.

 

As such, therefore, here is the line, in Latin, that the members of the Brotherhood use every year when they re-enact the Crucifixion, just at the moment when their actor, who is a stand-in for Casca Longinus himself, is about to use THE Holy Spear to stab into the victim, the actor who is selected to be crucified as Jesus was, and to die on his cross, just as Jesus did.

 

“Non, Longine!  Non pilum, tace!  Miserere!”

 

That is, “No, Longinus!  Not the spear, stop!  Have mercy!”

 

By the way, in my quotation of Jesus’ REAL last word on the cross, I should have written “cum quo” and not “cum quod.”  I figured out last night how to consult and use my comprehensive volume of Latin grammar which I have in my library.

December 18, 2011 at 12:29 pm #813
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Rob.McCool
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As Jesus` native language was probably aramaic would`nt His final words have been in that language?Although from what I can remember in school your latin is excellent-definitely a `case of nil satis nisi optimum`:-)

December 18, 2011 at 5:38 pm #814
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JOEASTORIA
Participant

Rob while most Americans speak just one language, people in Europe and around the Mediterranean Sea speak 2 or 3 and can get by in more. Latin would be the trade tongue, as English is today. If you want to be understood by someone speak his language, if you can.

December 18, 2011 at 5:40 pm #815
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Tony Roberts
Keymaster

The two Syrians with Casca thought that Jesus and Casca spoke in their own languages, one of which was Aramaic. So the language actually used isn’t clear; it appeared to each that it was in their own language – which to Casca would be Latin – but what was the language used by Jesus? Not Latin, I would say.

December 18, 2011 at 8:14 pm #816
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Altosackbuteer
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In the first chapter of Acts of the Apostles, on the occasion of the first Pentecost, after receiving the apparition of the Holy Spirit, Peter is reported to have “spoken in tongues” to the assembled multitude, of whom 3,000 were converted on that day.

Now, “speaking in tongues” is something that is misunderstood. More than once — to my great dismay — I’ve seen pentecostalist preachers / speakers “speak in tongues” which, in their case, means literal babbling.

IT IS SO MUCH HORESBLEEP!

In the context of Acts of the Apostles, Peter was NOT babbling. He was speaking in a perfectly comprehensible language — presumably Aramaic. But the MIRACLE, as reported, was that numerous people in the crowd, speaking different primary languages (Greek, Latin, Coptic, Persian immediately come to mind) ALL UNDERSTOOD PETER IN THEIR OWN LANGUAGES.

That is the same miracle that Sadler attributed to Jesus on the cross, in his (un)official 8th and final word. CASCA understood Jesus’ words in Latin, but Kleton and Achron respectively heard them converse in Hebrew and Aramaic (which is a close relative to Hebrew).

So at least, in the ear of the beholder — in this case, Casca — it IS fair to say that Jesus’ 8th and final word was indeed spoken IN LATIN, courtesy of a miracle of speaking in tongues.

December 18, 2011 at 8:23 pm #817
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Altosackbuteer
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With regard to Joeastoria’s posting, in the EASTERN Mediterranean at the time of Jesus, Greek was much more the primary language of trade — the lingua franca — than was Latin. While Aramaic was the primary language, Greek was by far the preferred language to learn as a second language. Not knowing Latin was no major problem, since most educated Romans — and generally the Roman representatives sent out to govern were well-educated — most educated Romans spoke Greek very well themselves. It was a matter of snobbery in Rome. Romans who couldn’t speak Greek — and with a pure Attic accent to boot — were looked down upon as unlettered and uncultured.

By the way, just in case I didn’t make it clear in my previous loathing — when I see ANYBODY on television “speaking in tongues,” which is really so much babbling — I get FURIOUS and wanna throw my shoe through the TV set. How I LOATH that fake, phony act of “piety.”

December 19, 2011 at 1:46 am #818
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KevinSchmitt
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From the very beginning I have felt that Jesus utilized some unearthly power to communicate directly with Casca’s soul.
Language is needed by men, not God, and perhaps not by souls.

December 19, 2011 at 8:12 pm #822
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Harri
Participant

With you on that, James; I despise “snake handlers” and others who invent biblical excuses for animal abuse.

December 20, 2011 at 3:52 pm #826
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JOEASTORIA
Participant

“Greek was much more the primary language of trade” OK I stand corrected.

December 20, 2011 at 4:14 pm #827
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Altosackbuteer
Participant

With regard to whatever language God uses, there is a midrash about that. When God created Adam, there was no such a thing as “language.” God invited Adam to name all the animals and objects himself, since God knew that without a language already resident inside him head, whatever sounds Adam might manage to eke out would be “natural” for the object or animal in question.

In other words, the original primordial language would be extremely onomopateic — where the very sound of the word would suggest its meaning.

For example, the word “mama” exists in most languages in some form, because the very syllable “ma” is the first thing a baby can say, and always therefore suggest “mama.”

The sound of the English word “fart” suggest that very act. And the English game bird a “partridge” (“and a partridge in a pear tree”) comes from this word, because the sound of that bird in flight is similar to the sound of a fart.

By the way, different rabbinical commentaries disagree as to what was the primordial language. Many say it was Hebrew, but some opinions say Aramaic.

From Poland all the way into China, the root word “kara” denotes something black, or cold, or ice, or hard, or evil. The name of the Mongol capital was Karakorum. In Polish, the word means “punishment.” Czarna and Chorna in Polish / Russian respectively mean “black.”

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